But that does not mean the place is some huge disaster. comments, 11-year-old boy and 17-year-old sister raise over $40k for animal rescues in Toronto, This Toronto woman created a worldwide friend group to beat loneliness, This couple is living among thousands of orchids in their Toronto condo, What's open and closed Family Day 2021 in Toronto, Here are the Toronto buildings that have been turned into homeless shelters this past year, You can get a winter shelter for stray cats to put in your backyard in Toronto, This is what happens to boats when people leave them in Lake Ontario, The history of the Fashion District in Toronto, Sign up for our free email newsletter. They know what’s really going on, and they simply pick up and leave. Cityplace maybe a ghetto, but everyone suffers from infrastructure problems in Toronto. All of it is replaceable. … Because what I am saying is EXACTLY about location, more specifically, that CityPlace is an awful location. I have been to many different CP condos – some have horrible layouts; some have good ones. Is CityPlace Toronto’s next ghetto? And this brings me to my next point, and perhaps one of the largest issues I have with the misinterpretation about my use of the word “ghetto” as it pertains to CityPlace: I speak of this area as a ghetto as it pertains to the downtown core; not the GTA, and not Ontario. (No one can disagree there). Sobeys in building In response to that old adage, sometimes a book has that cover for a reason. Few restaurants, bars, and independent stores give outsiders little reason to venture inside. I suppose part of my issue with my original comment in Eye Weekly was the fact that their online version of the story was split into two different articles. They are dystopian, colourless landscapes that remind me more of suburban developments than urban communities. In the foreseeable future, CP will never be a community, and thus it will never be like lower Harlem and get pulled up by surrounding areas. Regardless of how people view my comments, ie. 5 Brownstone Brooklyn, we are told, is sustainable, community-based and charming. Under-hyped is better than over-hyped and to me. Overcrowded? Including all the luxury and snobby King/Queen residences. Yet I wouldn’t be so quick to fulminate. But isn’t this what will serve to make this area a ghetto in 20 years? First Chinatown is a retronym for a former neighbourhood in Toronto, an area that once served as the city's Chinatown. It’s the cheapest, most easily obtainable real estate in the downtown core. Security in building is excellent (can’t even use elevator without a security fob) Your email address will not be published. Ghetto used a bit to loosely here, I’m certain that there’s more million dollar units in one building on ‘mariner terrace’ than the building you live in. Enjoy your spacious balcony with views of Victoria Park, Downtown London & the … Want to read more Business related posts? Let me use an example: In the southern part of Harlem/Morningside Heights (areas which used to be called ghetto areas) close to the Upper East Side and Upper West side, condo prices rise with property increases in the Upper East Side and Upper West Side. 4seasonscentre wrote: ↑ Also, I used to think City Place was "downtown" but it's actually a bit isolated. Can Rob Ford change supply and demand? This analysis of Cityplace is the most accurate and thorough one you’ve written in my opinion. Retail in CP is lacking because the gov’n will not allow anything which causes extra traffic but that will change as the years drag on. Anything that’s a little bit nice on King and Queen – is pretty far from downtown core. Most wealthy suburbs are 'disconnected' from the city and yet they do alright. Officially the Concord SkyBridge, it's 40 metres long and stands about 7 metres (around 2 storeys) tall between the 28th and 30th floors of the two buildings. Lots of partyers in building and lots of renters I understand that this writer has a job to do, and it’s his job to appear as if he is sensitive to what is worthwhile and tasteful in the world of condos, like a music critic who boasts that he doesn’t like the popular movement, but lauds the less known andante for its subtle melody, while perhaps not fully feeling that what he is more interested in conveying is that he is privy to a secret of which the masses are ignorant. Harlem is still considered undesirable to most wealthy New Yorkers, especially above125th street. I heard the new Parade tower will have Meile appliances. Hogtown! No complaints except 2 people from the same new building who frankly, said stuff that you here all the time in Manhattan – crappily built, security is unattentive etc. They are still using weights to open the gates, people pee in the underground parking, repair was done on the pipes already due to “minor leak”, the unit below me needed repairs due to leaking, a fire occurred on the 8th floor because young people just don’t care about cityplace. The Hierarchy of Life, according to John Michael Thumb: TOP You’ve actually proven the OP point. Overall I would never buy here. As far as CPs rep, I know 10-12 people who have lived there. Has been pretty much from when the first tower went up. This is the most dense area of the city and it’s only getting worse. CityPlace is located right between re-invigorated waterfront AND city core – both entertainment and financial districts, yet comfortably removed from both to provide peace and comfort. Chris Bateman is a staff writer at blogTO. Rich kids from the Hamptons move to New York and complain about their 4K rent/month crappy 1-bedroom apartments all day long. The separate Park Place development has slightly larger units, averaging 759 sq. When 15K people call CP their home, the nieghborhood will not be the best Toronto neighborhood, but will not be the worst either. My solution takes into account the City's … The land was cheap when Concord bought it, no one cared for it. This is Canadian Experience Class. They were built with Big Box stores and cars in mind, not pedestrians and public transit. Most of CP units have better views and more sunlight than anything on King or Queen St, where .5 million 1 bedrooms are glued to one another. It’s simple. If foreign investment ever pulled out of the Toronto real estate industry, which area of the city do you think would be hit the hardest? Cityplace is a so called young professionals living space. Bisha, 300 Front St West, Ritz Carlton, The Thompson, TIFF building are all within spitting distance of the first CP towers. Because I am in Apex, I do not mind LIVING in cityplace, as it is cheap, easy to walk to work/shopping etc…, and can get on the Gardiner in 2 minutes to go to other areas of the city that actually have things to do. But it’s been a fantastic place to rent. ft. For these first residents there are officially 31 retail outlets. The most expensive areas in NYC are probably SOHO and the Upper East Side. Ken Bryan is a Toronto nightlife hospitality expert, turned party promoter, brand marketer, and blogger. I’ve never seen more knowledge among buyers than I do today. That is one of Toronto's nicknames! In terms of driving, you may be right, but the walkability of the area is quite good. This is a bona-fide reason why CityPlace will slowly turn into a “ghetto.”. I agree on the Battery Park City comparison. I felt it was even better than the Soho across the street, where I have also lived. and we are thousands of dollars in the red after living here. Thank goodness we rent and don’t have to pay a realtor to sell this place …. To borrow a phrase, there was no there there. The same will likely happen once 15K residents move in. Is There More To The Story Than Just Money. They’ll be showing their age in about a week. So CP is the most ridiculed and the most underestimated by a sub-group of risk-averse Toronto – and therefore, the cheapest. I just moved to Toronto from NYC. BTW, I’m not a cityplacer coming to the rescue of the developments reputation…, Wait.. so Pickering IS the place to go now? (Btw, I’m not saying CP is as great as BPC but lets face it: not much in Toronto is as developed/great as NYC). I did, however, include Cityplace as my #1 worst condominium in downtown Toronto, saying the following: #1: Anything in CityPlace – Mariner Terrace, Telegram Mews, Navy Wharf. I have little respect for builders because they basically put up shitboxes using substandard material not suited for our climate. They are quite comfortable and clean with their A/C, in suite washers and dryers, pools and hot tubs and fitness rooms. I think the problem with CP is it was “over-hyped” intially so people are going the opposite way because they are surprised how it turned out. To foreign investors, its a no brainer. Still reading through your archives. I’ve known many people who moved there from Mississauga, Brampton and other 905 “bridge and tunnel” areas who believe its a clean and safe alternative to the “real” city because theres a Starbucks and 24hr Goodlife and big name grocery stores. whether or not they have heard my outrageous voice before, I’d like to tell you how I think CityPlace will be a ghetto in 20 years. Good and bad like everywhere. All of manhattan is neighborhoods, even Brooklyn is ‘somewhere’ CP is nowhere. Although Cityplace has a lot of negatives, which are clearly highlighted on this blog, it’s not an awful place to live but preferably rent. But as recently as 2002, this may have been the worst place in the city, with even basic city services not accessible to 30% of residents. As much as I agree that the immediate surrounding location is pretty dull, some buildings in Cityplace are less than a five minute walk away from King West. I’ve experienced a few “don’t do’s” in the past week, and I’m going to share them with you today. There are 20-something buildings and about 10,000 units all within spitting distance of eachother, with no surrounding infrastructure, no character, no history – and no way that this won’t be a ghetto in 20 years. 58 Ossington Ave. Toronto 416.849.2864 www.xpace.info Tues- Sat: 12PM-6PM and condominiums have effectively created economically and socially segregated geographies. Proximity. its ghettooooooo ive been chased by rats and ppl here…the only downfall about city place is no SUBWAY.. street cars mess up traffic anyways and shouldn’t even be considered on a one lane road… all of you saying CIRTYPLACE isnt real toronto yall are knobs and belong up at ST clair with all the rats and homless crack heads… CITYPLACE is These buildings are now not CMHC eligible, and bank appraisers are very harsh on their valuations – does anyone who really know have an idea when and if these issues will be resolved? That’s known as “the real estate kiss of death.”  When a seller plays pricing games, the buyers know to stay away. One of the most visible features of the development is the elevated bridge that connects the PARADE 1 and PARADE 2 towers. Cheaply made. Nobody has ever described CityPlace as “luxury living” or “upscale” in any way. Location rules. I don’t find any negative difference between Apex and any other condos in Toronto that I have stayed. Bottom line is Cityplace is mainly ghetto because of the high renter vs owners who live there ratio. If you plan on living there, make sure you buy the Ph unit, any other units would probably be crap. Why don’t all the buildings have private parks and great views? I especially like that you put your name on what you write and don’t hide behind “Anonymous” Cheers! "Power of Sale Properties Must Sell In As Is Condition". Also they have one of the lowest quality i’ve seen. Then they started building more and more with no great increase in infrastructure, no development of a neighbourhood with character. Fears and predictions aside, the largest development ever built in Toronto is approaching completion almost 8 years after construction work began in earnest. Fleming is ignoring the first rule of real estate: location, location, location,” then they’re missing my point entirely. -Realtors like DF The shopping crowd in Sobeys always surprised me as I expected a more up and coming new condo crowd, but most people seem to be like zombies with vacant looks in their eyes, alone in their worlds. If you’re a buyer with budgetary constraints, look no further than CityPlace. It's ridiculous to think that Cityplace will become a ghetto just because. I have no doubt that this writer’s tastes in condos are refined, but Cityplace is not without its perks. Bear in mind, I have only lived at Apex as far as Cityplace goes and it is probably one of the oldest Cityplace buildings on Front and Spadina. it’s amazing how having an opinion as a Realtor can really leave your butt exposed. Buyers don’t really differentiate between Neo and Montage – they’re just two of the many new towers in CityPlace. Depending on how you look at it, Toronto's CityPlace condo development is either a ghetto in the making or a trendy urban playground, rising from the waterfront's post-industrial ashes to revitalize an area once dominated by rail sidings, soot-blackened workshops, and roundhouses. Any press for Charlie Sheen is good press, but not for Lindsay Lohan, right? Yes, totally agree, I’m a CityPalce dweller and the workmanship is poor, and we’ve suffered our second flood this year. On other hand, plenty of places were a five minute walk away – Marben, Le Select and King West area/Roy Thompson Hall. City Place is terrible, but you don’t need to look very far to find people willing to defend the development. The customer care department doesn’t know what they are doing and the project manager has a very low building standard i.m.o. You can unsubscribe anytime or, subject to numerous approvals by Metrolinx, closed for around a month shortly after opening. The bottom three were easy: CityPlace, CityPlace, and more CityPlace. Our condominium market is so efficient right now that nothing is falling in between the cracks. Your right, we have to wait and see. Also, it looks to me that alot of people that read your blog probably have never lived or are new to living in a city like Toronto. It wasn’t bult overnight like CP, and it was carefully planned as a community. Nice post. -Serial Killers. Apex is close enough to the gardiner hwy (right off the Spadina exit). My opinions were rejected by readers of the original article, as they were quick to defend CityPlace, and even quicker to misinterpret my comments. As government said they would, making it easier for people who…, Further to my (sorry, rather lengthy) post about noise, there's a rule in my building that any…, This is an informative article. Concord SUCK!! How discerning can you really be when you’re starting at the very bottom? Would I rather live at CityPlace or Jane/Finch? It took them eight years to get a Sobey’s built within walking distance. no such thing as bad publicity. The design for many of these buildings is poor. The residents of the CityPlace condo group gathered together Saturday evening, in response to criticism leveled at the development. Cityplace is crappyplace. It is disgusting what has happened to ShittyPlace. Cityplace not only is a ghetto, it may be a future slum! (And also good luck if you need to use TTC.). They are corporate developments, formerly rail lands that were acquired by Liberty group and Concord in the late 90s. Yeah, I get it. Absolutely. (WHICH IS ANOTHER TOPIC ALL TOGETHER) The vast majority of people who live there aren’t from the city, and are comfortable because it reminds them of their suburban roots. That’s why their rich. I laughed in his face. CP investors/residents can be partially accredited for driving the development of the Toronto condo-boom (hate or love it), ending clubland and even growing King West (After all, they are the ones hitting the King West bars, wasting their money). PLAN/GEOG 450 Winter 2017 5 FROM FACTORIES TO CONDOS: THE CHANGING INNER CITY Harris, D. (2011). That is the point that I was trying to make. 1- Price: Where else can you find a 1 + den with parking for $1450 in a newer building? There are repairs that needed to be fixed and it would take them 2-3 times to fix something simply like caulking on the windows. I happen to live (rent) in Cityplace and can’t agree more with you David. Good Luck to anyone who lives there. Your definitive guide to the Toronto & GTA housing market. In fact, I just punched it in the “Walkscore” website and it got an 85 (the average in Toronto is 49). I've seen the comments about noise and would like to ask for the…, US property, I have read all the comments…. Jane/Finch has a lot of crime, … If you walk along the North side by the railway tracks, the entire area is littered with dog dung. Characterized by its dense population and overlooking Lake Ontario, this neighbourhood attracts instagrammers because of its picturesque surroundings. And, like, a really cool gym where good looking guys with spray-tans wear Hurley toques inside!”. It’s much more likely that the CP condo would go for 80%-90% of the relative price, even if CP suffers a bad rep. To be honest its not bad at all. They’ll take an area like Lake Shore Blvd or Queens Quay that had a couple of nice condos but still a nice looking area, and then allow developers to put up several more condos so packed in that instead of nice views, all of a sudden hundreds or thousands of people have views of each others suites. Supply and demand has long since been ignored, and there are simply too many units in CityPlace to satisfy what will eventually be a lack of demand. Do they have Sobeys at every corner? There is character in Harlem. Just check out the UrbanToronto forum and you’ll find mostly spray tanned tenants in their 20s lauding the proximity to the financial district or king west. I’ll admit that I am not as familiar nor really understand the nuances of Toronto real estate (but Im also not eager to assume that Toronto’s real estate is much different than anywhere else). I first developed a dislike of CP a few years ago after seeing several units there while my bf was looking for a condo. Just my two cents…. I can’t disagree with your other points though. I live on King W. (renting) but sometimes shop at the Cityplace Sobeys. The article that said about me, “He calls it like he sees it, sarcastically documenting, in hilarious video and blog posts, his disdain for sex-driven marketing, murky purchase agreements, shoddy construction, and poor planning, as evidenced by his perennial whipping-boy, CityPlace,” was in a completely different article from where I made my comment about CityPlace as a “ghetto.”  Without knowing my platform, I suppose people might take my comments as literally as a definition that claims a ghetto is best evidenced by 1940’s Europe…. In fact, I thought the building was pretty good and would recommend it. It represents what I dislike most about the Realtors who sell units here: they’re not thinking outside the box, they’re not working for their clients, they’re taking the easy way out, and above all – they refuse to take a stance on anything. You can be at any major bank in 5 minutes! New young and Trendy and its like 5 mins walk to the entertainment district so unless you cant walk you are just a Toronto want to be hipster speaking out of your A$$, wanted to ask something – do you really think pure plaza liberty villages condos are much better? Toronto’s next ghetto? Add to that our damages that were done to our car during the ‘repair’ of the parking garage (really? Cmon…A ghetto does not have Meile appliances. Are you suggesting that condos outside cityplace are not too close to each other? I have lived in the Cityplace Apex. Investors made an absolute killing. To understand my comments about CityPlace being a future “ghetto,” let’s first examine the word itself. Where is the quiet at night? Do your homework. Fully loaded, it can support the weight of about 100 people. You’re a joke, hoss. -Glenn Beck They took offers, didn’t get what they were looking for, and subsequently re-listed higher at $399,000. Here’s the nightmare scenario: in a few years, once the massive steel-and-glass buildings in the city’s largest residential development start to age, the young … The Puente de Luz, or Bridge of Light, weighs 270 metric tons (600,000 lbs) and is 125 metres long. Law & Social Inquiry, 36(3), 694 … CityPlace is a neighbourhood in Downtown Toronto, Ontario, Canada, within the former Railway Lands. Join the conversation Follow him on Twitter at @chrisbateman. These two Apartments for Rent Downtown London have exceptional views of London, Ontario and the downtown core. Case in point, in my building where everything is selling in multiple offers, a unit was listed at $379,000 that was likely worth around that price. Buyers are looking at everything else; things I’ve been championing for years: the building, the location, the neighbourhood, the shops/restaurants/bars, public transit, access to highways, walking distance to A, B, and C, and about a dozen other criteria that make CityPlace look like a ghetto. I know we live in Toronto and all, but guys, it’s getting old. I don’t want to sound like a weirdo or anything but I agree with every single solitary word you said, even the part about location which seems to be the one sticking point among readers. How can you place furniture in your living room properly when it’s not a square or rectangle, but rather an odd collection of angles? You can’t really blame the builders for planning this area to be basic. Foreign Investors view every city the same – they look at the location, the views, the layouts etc. In the Entertainment District? As far as finishes? The Toronto hoods and Toronto gangs of Scarborough include Malvern and Wickson Trail, Mornelle Court, D-Block (Danzig), Galloway Boyz, OPB (Orton Park), Greenbrae Ct., Gilder Block, Section … These people have no reason to spend money on general upkeep of the units when the vacancy rate in Toronto is 1.5%, and as a result, the units fall into disrepair. but there’s only one truth, and you totally nailed it. It’s very informative article and discussion. Cityplace, Toronto, ON condo prices overview Point2 gives you far more than a simple list of condos for sale. Places in the Upper West might be 2M. Most people who live there have too few complaints. Amazing facilities … I use the pool daily Every building in any major city will have many renters, that’s a fact and people have to get over it. The CBC report follows on the heels of a provocative November 10 2011 feature story in The Grid TO in which writer Edward Keenan examined concerns that CityPlace could become “Toronto’s next ghetto… The new Royal Bank building is like 2 minutes away. The 905 has come home to roost in the GTA! The map below shows the City of Toronto’s 140 neighbourhoods displayed by neighbourhood number. Some were built far west from Spadina and others closer to the rest of the city – just east of Spadina. No one bothers with scooping their waste. Mostly foreign owners bought in there with every intention to flip ’em and make a quick buck. Compared to other buildings the Front street cityplace … The “walkscore” tool that somebody posted above is interesting, but it doesn’t take into account that you have to walk across an eight -lane section of Spadina that is just north of one of the biggest trafic congestion spots in the city. Have you checked out the Panorama building? -John Michael Thumb Harborview Estates has an amazing fitness facility and most of the cityplace buildings have excellent pools, gyms and exercise rooms. If Toronto becomes the great world-class city, it wants to be, these kinds of properties always go for a lot of $ (Toronto is a cheap urban city by all international standards btw). As for infrastructure, there will be more retail to come from what I was told. and CN Tower/Roger’s Centre remains a desirable area, then, inevitably, CP will see modest gains. I mean, every picture of the Toronto’s skyline, positively or negatively, advertises CP. I’ve never been inside a CityPlace building, but the isolation of those buildings is easy to see. All the talk about “lack of character” in CP is absolutely true and of all ‘planned neighborhoods’ but the proximity from some good character neighborhoods is not very far (5-10 mins). How many bars, shops, restaurants, and businesses are in the ghetto west of Spadina? I only had one client that wanted to rent there and that was mainly because he travelled so much he wanted something cheap. They are corporate investments, NOT neighbourhoods. Sucks to be you, but that don’t mean it aint true. Things are changing fast, and it’s hard to stay on top of everything. So, in other words, if King West continues it’s prominence, (which seems likely given the TIFF building, the Thompson, theatre district, financial district, the Ritz Carlton and Liberty Village all close or just down the street etc.) -Residents of CityPlace (see preceding notch) Yes it’s true. They’ll just reno if necessary. I lived in Toronto--specifically the North York part of the city--for four years when I attended York University as an undergraduate. Do you understand anything about location? If people think that CityPlace is: “In close proximity to the financial district and the city’s most well-known landmarks (CN Tower, Rogers Centre, the theatre district),” then they’re not thinking specific enough.
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