I think the tungsten and copper are mostly unnecessary to the design, and possibly nickel as well. The matte black … I’ll be looking for a new knife. › Knife steel nerds elmax › Knife steel nerds s35vn › Knife steel nerds lc200n. Ideally we would like to use steels that have the best possible toughness and wear resistance for a given amount of carbide. Phosphorous, however, tends to segregate to grain boundaries and to reduce toughness in steel. copper .5 corrosion resistance, strength, finer grain Thanks to Michael Poor and Connor Kaspar for becoming Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporters!. S35VN is a steel developed and produced by Crucible Industries, released in 2009. Common Use Case: To create a profile of well balanced high-quality attributes. However, I had not seen oxygen measurements for Carpenter PM steels and this value was much higher than I expected; I thought it would be closer to Crucible. In the early 1900s, high carbon-high chromium steels were developed, and during World War I in England they were used as an alternative to high speed steels with high tungsten content. I am looking to have three custom knives made, an 8" chef, a 6" slicer, and a 3" parer. “Cold-work tool steel article.” U.S. Patent 7,615,123, issued November 10, 2009. This is my favorite test so far. The type of carbides is much more important for edge retention while for toughness it is the size and volume of carbide that primarily matters. This surprised me because typically it is reported that 52100 has the most carbide, and ThermoCalc predicts over twice as much carbide in 52100 as O1. 61, no. Sources of free to inexpensive steel are the places to go to. For slicing with a coarse finish you want high wear resistance. Composition of Elmax Steel Carbon 1.70% Chromium 18.00% Vanadium 3.00% Molybdenum 1.00% Silicon 0.80% Manganese 0.30% Elmax is a particle metallurgy stainless steel made by Uddeholm. 16-19, 2006. I am curious if YOU are curious about what the “best” damascus would look like in a micrograph. Its steel hardness is 61-63 HRC. The classic example of these is AEB-L, but there are others available. This allows the observation of the size and distribution of the inclusions in each of the steels. If the rest of the design can be balanced to avoid chromium carbide after heat treating then the higher chromium will not reduce toughness. Most of the nitrogen is eaten up by niobium and vanadium leaving only the carbon for hardness and of course some of that goes to making carbides as well. There are not many stainless steels with intermediate carbide contents. It is clear there is a correlation between carbide volume and toughness but there is a significant amount of scatter for the reasons described above. And the carbides have a distribution in size from small to large. And in the end the two have pretty similar carbide volume, it’s not as if one has incredibly more than the other. The overall “volume” of inclusions appears very similar, probably because the sulfide content is similar between them. Thanks to Konstantinos Noulis, Neil MacEachern, and J Kane Searcy for becoming Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporters! Ja, die Temperatunen sind natürlich unterschiedlich, nun Prinzip bleibt gleich. My goal here is a useful post anvil and my budget is $100. However, there are relatively large segregated regions with large chromium carbides: The in-development NioMax has a much more uniform microstructure. I don’t know what reticulated refractory filters are, unfortunately. And some steels seem to do poorly in toughness testing despite small carbides. Prepare to rethink what you know about knife steel. ELMAX provides the extreme edge retention, high strength, and toughness a hard-use knife demands. 4.8 out of 5 stars 419. Nickel additions can improve toughness, particularly at low temperatures. Knife Steel Nerds; Some Slideshows I've Made; $50 Knife Shop; Canadian Knifemaker (forum) Anvil Fire - Heat Treating; Knife Network - Newbies; Ray Rogers Handcrafted Knives ; Canadian Knifemaker Supply; Sites of Interest to Knifemakers. Elmax; Knife Making Links. It edge retention? Having a low volume of small carbides leads to good edge stability for thin edges with good cutting ability. Shop thousands of quality pocket knives from all the top knife brands including Benchmade, Spyderco, CRKT Cold Steel and more! There are differences in oxygen, however. There are also many other steel companies that sell “standard” or lesser known steel grades like Aichi (AUS-8, AUS-10), Ahonest Changjiang (8Cr13MoV, 9Cr18MoV, 7Cr17), or Latrobe (BG42, 440C, D2). Terasrenki knife blades are unique works of art. The 10V was austenitized at a lower temperature (1800°F) than the other two (1900 and 1975°F). S35VN Steel History. nickel .4 toughness; hot workability (Cu related?) Elmax knife abuse; DAS macht ein gutes Messer aus Galileo ProSieben. Therefore it is the resistance to coarsening of the carbides that primarily controls the final size of the carbides. I also have extensive articles on the effect of carbide on edge retention: Part 1 and Part 2. my first articles was a small collection of electron microscope images, https://vacaero.com/information-resources/metallography-with-george-vander-voort/153771-metallography-of-iron-nickel-meteorites.html, http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=cts%20b70%2C%20yushu%2C%20×15%2C%20lc200n%2C%20becut&hrn=1&gm=0. Yes the normal steels like o1 and 1095 etc are just fine. Frequent lubrication and proper storage will keep things in good order. The X50Cr15MoV steel has surprisingly low toughness, perhaps that is explained by the scattered large carbides that were seen in the micrographs. Welcome to the #knifecommunity – Nitch Designs. Wondering where and how it stacks up? niobium .32 Those steels show the benefits of a small volume of carbide. It almost looks like they obscure the grain boundaries. From Russian Federation. We will see if anything changes with further Vanadis 4 Extra and 4V toughness tests. Elmax has slightly more carbon and chromium, that’s true. Sulfides are usually present in the form of manganese sulfide, as manganese is added intentionally to avoid iron sulfides. I carry it often. Composition of Elmax Steel. Each was given the same heat treatment of 2140°F austenitize, plate quench, cryo, and 365°F temper. Below shows micrographs of Vanadis 4 Extra and Vanadis 4 where you can see the carbide size difference. Powder metallurgy is reported to lead to less detrimental effects of MnS, and the poor machinability of high wear resistance PM steels means that sometimes the tradeoff is worth it. Top 10 related websites. Oxides can be in many forms including FeO, MnO, Al2O3, SiO2, and others. Was looking forward to the graphs for 15N20 but it didn’t make it onto any of them. please tell me, i love using xhp steel with a super toothy edge, lansky coarse dyamond with only leather stropping , stays very shaving , and cut very aggressive cardboard ! Hey gang! And silicon suppresses carbide formation in tempering to avoid tempered martensite embrittlement. Low alloy steels generally have a small amount of very tiny carbides which explains their relatively low wear resistance. Our automatic knives (also known as switchblade knives) are generally available to members of the Armed Forces, Law Enforcement, and government personnel. In those cases decreasing the carbide size while maintaining the same carbide volume improved toughness. So yes you answered the question to an extent. 95 $114.99 $114.99. About the only knife that I really care for in these steels is my Spyderco Para2 in S30V. Thanks to John Dyess, Michael Foote, Xun Fan, and Mark Vanderwest for becoming Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporters!. The carbides (white particles) are finer and more uniform in the powder metallurgy version. I won’t be able to describe all of those methods in this article, however. Your email address will not be published. 1095 is a non-stainless carbon steel, with approximately 0.95% carbon in the blade.This makes for a tough knife that holds an excellent edge, but it's prone to rusting if you don't take care of it. I'm back with another RFI for my favorite group of like-minders. | Check out 'Artisan Revere: Elmax Super Steel Chef Knife' on Indiegogo. The carbide size is improved by more reduction, so it depends on the size of the bars or sheet. This is the principle reason to select CPM 3V for a knife. The BD1N has a dragon head carbide which is fun. CPM 3V steel has its advantages when it is used in a knife. For transverse specimens that were heat treated with a 1975°F austenitize, plate quench, cryo, and 400°F temper, the 4V had significantly better toughness (12 vs 9 ft-lbs), though at slightly lower hardness, and the toughness was only slightly less than the longitudinal Vanadis 4 Extra (13 ft-lbs). In particular I would like to do 440C, 154CM, ZDP-189, S30V, S60V, S110V, S125V, CPM-M4, A2, 19C27, Blue Super, Blue #1, 1.2519, and 1.2442. 1095 blades also tend to be thicker because a thin knife made of hard 1095 can be too brittle. I will discuss a few examples here: L6, 5160, 8670, Z-Tuff, 3V, AEB-L, NioMax, 52100, and Z-Finit all have a small volume of small carbides and that is reflected in their excellent toughness. So both S110V and Maxamet would be good ones to try. My point being this... DE blades are more akin to higher carbon simpler steel and a mach 3 is something like an elmax steel. And carbides are more likely to be found at grain boundaries, both because boundaries are a likely place for them to form and the carbides that are already there “pin” the boundaries. Just wondering how millions of years in space would affect crystal arrangement. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). a mix) of carbon and iron that is often enriched with other elements to improve certain characteristics depending on the desired application. However, having a small volume of small carbides is not a guarantee of high toughness. Below shows a comparison between CruWear (conventional) and CPM CruWear (powder metallurgy). It answered some questions I’ve always had about buying from these companies. nickel .7 ELMAX steel is used in many Microtech knives, and is a popular metal choice for many Kershaw knives. In that case the toughness was essentially identical, the small difference is probably just due to experimental variability. There is no clear winner in terms of carbide size in either case: We have tested toughness for M390 and 20CV with the same heat treatment, and the difference was probably within the scatter of the test: 8.8 ft-lbs for M390 and 8.2 ft-lbs for 20CV. The properties of knife steels are greatly controlled by the volume fraction, size, and distribution of carbides. Bark River Knives JX6 Companion Fixed Blade Knife 3.675" Elmax Sa… At small amounts of carbide non-PM steels can have similar or better toughness depending on the composition. It will likely oxidize over time depending on the working environment, 3V steel is not stainless. Uddeholm has redeveloped several of their steels over the past couple decades to reduce or eliminate the Cr and Mo/W carbides so that the overall carbide size is reduced. Steels beginning with a number and C are carbon steels, the opposite. I am even more curious about how a meteorite would look- that is. High Quality EDC Knives & Fixed Blade Survival Knives Bradford Knives aims to provide you with the best fixed blades. This was also seen in steels that were carburized after atomisation. The most common types of inclusions in steel are sulfides (compounds of sulfur) and oxides (compounds of oxygen). Based on a poll of Knife Steel Nerds Patreon voting members, we have decided to purchase a small impact tester for knife edges. Many say that Elmax performs better than CPM-S30V, and it’s used often by famous knife makers like Tony Marfione and Rick Hinderer. I would only add also 1.2562 to the steel mix as it is becoming more available (especially in Europe). Edge retention testing is continuing, we have now tested 18 different steels, and four of those steels with multiple heat treatments. So I wonder if the nitrogen level has been intentionally raised since then or if there is simply wide variation in nitrogen levels with M390. Here are some chemically related competitors: Required fields are marked *. The larger carbides are rare so there probably aren’t many in the edge, I think. The toughness of 4V was 11.9 ft-lbs and Vanadis 4 Extra was 9 ft-lbs. The heating of the tundish with electrodes allows the longer process to take place for the finer powder. Thanks to Josh Warren and Alex K for becoming Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporters! Iron sulfides melt at relatively low temperature, leading to liquid sulfides at forging temperatures, which makes hot rolling steel likely to fail. I recently purchased equipment to polish steel for metallography. In the book he cites the image as coming from a Bohler document. Felt like I should chime in in here as I love me some super steel. [10] Pinnow, Kenneth E., William Stasko, and John Hauser. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. The chromium is of course a bit on the low side for a stainless steel. The mid-carbon steels 8670, L6, and 5160 have the high toughness to match, while 1095 and O1 have only “OK” toughness given the small carbides. Thanks, Matus. There is an email response from a Carpenter employee on the Spyderco forum [5] that provides some information on their powder metallurgy process. manganese .4 3V inspired percent Notify me of follow-up comments by email. After atomization, the two carbide types (vanadium and chromium) are similar in size, but during the HIP and forging processes the chromium carbides coarsen more rapidly than vanadium carbides. Ideally, a sample from an asteroid that hasn’t gone through the atmosphere would look. Backing To make a belt… Have you also considered looking into some of the original Wootz damascus to see what that might look like? Gut, was prinzipiell unterscheidet PGK von Elmax, m390 oder s90v was die Kurve angeht? I have not tested the toughness of CPM D2 yet. However, the bottom line is if any of the powder metallurgy steel companies have a carbide size advantage it is a minor one. If you love knives and geek out on metals, the launch of the Artisan Revere Chef Knife … Also comparing with the vanadium carbide 10V the carbides are smaller than any of these stainless powder metallurgy steels. It looks like stronger carbide formers lead to smaller carbides in powder metallurgy steels. The European Powder Metallurgy Association, 2004. Discussion in 'Knives' started by rtvolk, Mar 18, 2015. rtvolk Loaded Pockets. My book Knife Engineering is available for Christmas and Hanukkah presents.. History of Vanadis 8. Your email address will not be published. Keep up the awesome work! The toughness of CPM-154 with 16% carbide volume was significantly better than Vanax, Elmax, or S35VN which have a similar amount of carbide. Erasteel’s process is called “2nd generation” by Bohler-Uddeholm. So it can’t be the case that Carpenter and Crucible are avoiding recycled high-speed steels if those steels are supposed to be high in tungsten, since their steels here are also high in tungsten (high for “trace” levels – roughly 0.5% is surprisingly high to me, given how expensive tungsten is…). The small increase in nitrogen with M390 and 204P helps some with achieving higher hardness, it may also lead to a small increase in corrosion resistance and wear resistance. I have an idea for a tougher steel with good edge holding, while retaining corrosion resistance. 1, pp. The SEM can use “backscattered” mode which can be used to differentiate between carbide types (brighter or darker in the microscope). But there are more subtle factors that lead to different levels of toughness even if heat treated “optimally.” We don’t always know how the different alloying elements and steel processing interact to lead to the final properties that we measure. However, during the re-pours it is possible for the slag to be pushed down into the liquid steel and through the atomization nozzle resulting in excess oxides in the final product. The sprayform version of D2, PSF27, has roughly twice the toughness of D2 due to smaller carbides. $365.10. Perhaps the more “clumpy” carbides in Elmax or S35VN is detrimental to toughness. It is difficult to know if there is a true size difference without a full statistical analysis. High carbon in solution leads to brittle “plate martensite” which reduces toughness. hardness; inspired mostly by Becut & B70P I am just an enthusiast, and I am still learning, but as I learn about knife steels I can not help but get ideas. Fortunately I have comparisons between a few steels that are identical in composition but produced by Bohler, Uddeholm, or Crucible. I only have a couple good examples of high carbide content conventional stainless steels. The approximate composition of the matrix in terms of chromium and molybdenum can also be measured with Energy-dispersive X-ray spectroscopy (EDS). Having other people take images is a slow and expensive process. This may be because of the method it is made, where Vanax is first atomized and then the powder is nitrided where the vanadium nitrides are then formed at a lower temperature than where atomization occurs. 1095 Carbon Steel. A nitrogen measurement of M390 from 1995 reported 0.11% in one heat and 0.15% in another [10]. Source: Knife Steel Nerds. When Bohler-Uddeholm is comparing with the “1st generation” they are usually referencing Crucible Steel. And while he says that they have the ability to produce powder under vacuum for very low oxygen content, he also states that the knife steels are produced in air like Crucible, Carpenter, and Bohler-Uddeholm. From Russian Federation. >> See knives with Elmax steel. I aimed for the lowest percent I understand stainless to be commonly defined as by chromium percent, while seeking additional enhancements with the other elements. I don’t know if anything so specific could be surmised from these two images. Material is stainless powder steel: Elmax. Most of the steel has a finely distributed carbide structure but there are occasional larger vanadium carbides which are a few microns across. With this advanced steel, you get both properties, which makes it an excellent steel for high end folders. Microscopy. There are various methods used in an attempt to limit the oxide and sulfide content of steel though it is impossible to reduce it to zero. Thanks to Stacy Apelt for becoming a Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporter! Each blade is made with love and undisputed professionalism by award winning Master Bladesmith. I appreciate your time. silicon .6 Rex 121 has extremely high wear resistance while Z-Tuff has relatively low wear resistance. Your email address will not be published. [4] https://www.bohlerperu.com/app/uploads/sites/92/2018/08/ST035DE_Microclean.pdf, [5] https://forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?t=49823&start=40. Shopping Cart Items: 0 Sub-Total : $0.00. For the same steel grade, according to my low understanding, I think the bars steel are better than the sheet steel, why is that? Bohler and Uddeholm claim that their version is an improvement on the older 10V. The Elmax steel chef knife could be the ultimate blade for your camp (or home) kitchen. These types of steels can have very large and ugly carbide structures, similar to D2 and other conventionally produced high chromium steels. There are various processing methods for reducing P and S content, but whatever methods each company is using the result appears to be pretty similar. How does it perform? Or it could be that the carbides are the limiting factor for toughness rather than the oxide inclusions simply because there is such a significant volume of carbides. Adding 440C and 154CM would be good, though micrographs of those are available in other places. For some reason I had a hard time removing scratches from these steels so there are stray scratches visible in some of the micrographs. Other Crucible steels have much lower tungsten. Blade HQ uses cookies to provide you a better user experience. I will have to look into the “why” of this more in the future. It is a well balanced knife steel that offers very good corrosion resistance, edge holding and good toughness. Steel is essentially an alloy (i.e. In a modified version of 3V that has never been released, they alloyed with niobium instead of vanadium and found that it had finer carbides than the vanadium version. Benchmade Custom Knife Builder . “Wear resistant, powder metallurgy cold work tool steel articles having high impact toughness and a method for producing the same.” U.S. Patent 5,830,287, issued November 3, 1998. European PM Conference Proceedings, vol. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). Free Shipping by Amazon. The reason I'm advising this is that the EnZo Trapper is now available in ELMAX - one of the highest regarded modern "super steels" available. I don’t think there’s an easy answer. The composition of the steel has a much greater affect on carbide size than the powder metallurgy manufacturing technology. 20CV/M390/204P have an intentional tungsten addition according to each steel’s datasheet while Elmax does not. nitrogen .5 corrosion resistance; hardness; LC200N Thanks to Mike Mass for becoming a Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporter! the carbides sizes are smaller? in conjunction, It has also been suggested in some discussion in the Spyderco Forums about SPY-27 that the Cobalt addition should help maintain hardness during mechanical grinding and shaping. In the original process, the steel is poured into the tundish several times to make a whole batch of powder. 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! Crucible-produced 3V also had excellent toughness. The lowest values are for Uddeholm Elmax and Bohler M390, Crucible has roughly double the oxygen content of Bohler-Uddeholm, and Carpenter 204P has about 50% more than Crucible. One is that the high nitrogen content of LC200N is from PESR which tops out around 0.5% and a target of 0.4% might be more realistic. Hey gang! There is a lot of carbide in 20CV/M390, yes. Folding Knives with Elmax Steel Automatic Knife Ordering Agreement IN COMPLIANCE WITH FEDERAL STATUTES , KnifeCenter, Inc requests that you read carefully the requirements set forth below, and agree to this prior to your purchase or receipt of any automatic opening knife from our company. I recently purchased equipment to polish steel for metallography. Steel type: Elmax. Steels patina in the acid at varying rates which allows for one steel to etch darker than the other and show that famous patterned contrast. Silicon Carbide, Aluminum Oxide, Zirconia Alumina and many others are hard enough to cut steel. resistance The highest toughness powder metallurgy steel we have tested was Z-Tuff/CD1 which is produced by Carpenter. One is CPM 4V (Crucible) compared with Vanadis 4 Extra (Uddeholm). One example is Vanadis 4 Extra which was a redesigned Vanadis 4 with reduced chromium content to eliminate chromium carbides. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! The most questionable question every knife user or knife maker can have,“ What is the best steel for knives,” and many types of steel come out as an answer, on of these types is the CPM 3V or the 3V Steel, You name it.. I explained why 52100 has less carbon in solution in this article. Elmax; Knife Making Links. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel, 10/15/2020: I added M398, WFN, Nitrobe 77, and Vancron, 2/24/2020: I added 420HC, CPM-T15, Rex 76, S125V, SPY27, and Z-Max/Rex 86. We can see a comparison between these three production methods by looking at conventional D2, sprayform PSF27, and CPM D2, all of which have the same composition: CPM D2 (1900°F) – Powder Metallurgy D2 – 13% carbide volume. Knife Steel Nerds - Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel (2 days ago) Thanks to aaron @ gough custom, aaron mcvay, mark scott, jeffrey st. claire, grant seim iii, and saiiiiiii1 for becoming knife steel nerds patreon supporters!. LC200N is high-end stainless steel, it’s high in nitrogen, and it offers superior corrosion resistance. Below I have shown the measured P, S, and O: The P and S of each steel is very similar, in fact Uddeholm Elmax has the highest levels of both of those elements. Generally speaking the higher the number in front of the Cr or C the better quality, but there are exceptions. Is this real or imagined? Watch; Steels beginning with a number and then 'Cr' are chromium steels, which resist rust better than high carbon knife steel or tool steel, but lose an edge in short order. At 64 Rc AEB-L is approximately equal to CruForgeV at the same hardness. [9] Pinnow, Kenneth E., and William Stasko. There are many older powder metallurgy steels which were designed with this fact in mind, however. The difficulty in eliminating chromium carbides in stainless steels is part of the reason why the non-stainless tool steels like 3V, 4V, Vanadis 4 Extra, 10V, etc. Carbon 1.70%. Alongside edge geometry and design, blade steel is a critical element that determines how a knife performs. I'm 100% sold on "stainless" steels and of those, N690 is my fav. Understanding the … We also have some comparisons between Uddeholm Vanadis 4 Extra and Crucible 4V but have only condition that is identical between the two, because we had some specimens that ended up being undersized and could not be machined for testing. Therefore the carbide volume of the steel can be thought of as the “upper limit” of possible toughness.
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